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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 3, 2008 14:21:02 GMT
(i have already answerd your question read again!!!) Pharaoh knows because people know that if they lie to him the things they'll have to face will make them wish they were death, no one wants that so they wont lie to him they know Pharaoh will know if they lie or not, they think that the avilities given to him by the were-leopard are very powerfull, as you can know a were-leopard can know if someone is lieing by their smell and their eyes.
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 3, 2008 17:59:44 GMT
"By the same fassion that I can tell if people are lying by their eyes and any blatent smells of fear?"
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Post by Johnny Carcer-Spectro on Mar 3, 2008 20:01:44 GMT
"I'm afraid that just isnt reliable enough,sobek, for one thing there are many types of fear, of anxiety, anxiety from fearing the consequences of betrayal, anxiety from being near some one who shows their power quite blatantly, fear of being in a strange place. I doubt he could distinguish between these types of fear. Perhaps he has punished someone wrongly in the past, believing his senses to be that acute? there is of course the other extreme when using fear and eye movement . What if some one has been trained to restrain their emotions?if someone was going to lie to a government hey may have prepared themselves for all manner of lie detecting tests, allowing them to lessen the effects fear has upon their body. Perhaps even restricting the amount of adrenaline or other such hormone in their body. Surely someone with the right funds or the right connections could do this? perhaps by surgery? could he notice this? a person could still be afraid, but still show no obvious signs of it. You are again between that same rock and hard place, you can either allow me the pleasure of shooting down your reliability theories, or you can admit to gaining this knowledge of reliability through the use of the informant in the past. Which will it be?"
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 3, 2008 20:06:22 GMT
"Or they may not, simply putting it, be reliable."
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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 5, 2008 14:00:48 GMT
your way of looking at things is more deep than I thought it was but once again Pharaoh was right he didnt understimate you, but you are understimating his power, when he and anita had a relationship she transmited some of her powers to him with out knowing Pharaoh can smell fear and other emotions but he can also smell a lie aparently it has a diferent arome its like 2 difetent perfumes, when you lie to someone you try to show confidence but you feel doubt because you dont know if they will believe you or not, when you tell the truth you dont try to show confidence you feel confidence you knwo that what you tell is right so there is no place for fear or doubt, why should you feel scared or with fear of the person infront of you when you are telling the truth, Pharaoh has never made a mistake in judging people he has never killed an innocent, once he judged someone of traitor without any prove people thought he was wrong, the ones that didnt trust him for been a new and young Pharaoh sended him to the ruling stones in which he had to prove he was right and the person that died was a traitor, he send a team conformed from all of these people to investigate the case, so they did when they found the information and all the clues he used his necromancer ring and called the one that was dead and ask him if he was a traitor and he confessed to be a traitor, after that day everyone in amgroth trusts Pharaoh judgement. he inspires trust to the ones that tells the truth and fear to the ones that lie, for what I can see here the information was right, which means the informant was telling the truth.
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 5, 2008 19:19:26 GMT
"This is beside the point. The fact is that you're standing here, accusing Johnny here of something that your lord has committed himself."
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Post by Johnny Carcer-Spectro on Mar 5, 2008 21:17:53 GMT
"yet how do I know any of this is true? you say that he is just. That he inspires fear in those who lie to him and trust in those who are honest? how does he do this? how can you prove that your story of the traitor is real? perhaps the Pharaoh only thinks he has this effect one people? perhaps he over estimates his abilities? what if some one is lying but is able to control the signs, would the Pharaoh know this? would he be able to set aside his ego and consider that he might not be powerful enough to read everyone correctly? would he have the humility to admit his mistake?
what you tell us he has sensed in the informant, or even what he believes he has sensed in them is evidence of the reliability of the informant. Even the Pharaoh can be deceived, weather he knows it or not.
we are again at the point where we question the reliability of you informant and your information"
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 5, 2008 21:23:39 GMT
"Which is all well and good, but what if, just what if, your informant isn't afraid of you. Or how about they swear it's a truth. Their bodies will give off all the signs of truth, but it is infact a complete lie. As long as they tell what they genunily believe as the truth; biologically, it's as if they told the real truth. But what is said is diffrent. It may be the opposite. It may be only slightly diffrent."
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Post by Johnny Carcer-Spectro on Mar 5, 2008 21:34:23 GMT
"he has a point"
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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 10, 2008 15:58:29 GMT
all humans can only control 5% of their brains if you'll be able to control a 50% of it you'll be able to separe mind of body when you're able to do it then you would have a 0.01% of fooling Pharaoh, but he will know it, as for if the source if reliable or not, well by the power invested on me by Pharaoh I give the word of the amgroth that the source is reliable I have already defended the fact that my Pharaoh is not spying on any nation and by the power invested on me by Pharaoh I give you the word of amgroth that my nation is not spying on you if you want more prouf of this then I give you my word as hero of amgroth sobek V oktalmne and leader of the military and technological houses of amgroth (he is what you would call the minister of defence and technology), now I want the word of the supreme King of foxtonland, ruler of pavonis and the supreme King of jacknitka that Pharaohs suspitions are not true, if you realy have nothing to hide then give to my nation your words as kings and Pharaoh will do what necessary for you to forgive this offence in case is not true, can you do that?
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 10, 2008 16:34:46 GMT
First off, the character here is not Tommy; Combat King of Jackatanicus, but instead his lacky, head of Trigger Limited, Jack.
Second off... Wha-?
From what I get of that, it's basically you saying sorry. Am I correct? It's also spelt "suspicions"
Helpful tip; If you're not sure as to how it's spelt, stick it in MS Word or Google.
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Post by Johnny Carcer-Spectro on Mar 10, 2008 16:45:39 GMT
"your word means nothing to me, I don't know you. I don't know your motives, nor do I know your Pharaohs motives as well as I ought. You cannot bring your word to us as evidence for ANYTHING, i still do not believe that you have proved that the Pharaoh has not being spying. as I have said, your girlfriend analogy does not work. You need to have used the informant multiple times to even hazard a guess about their reliability.
and simply saying th information came from a reliable source wont cut it either.
what if I was to come to the Pharaoh claiming there was a giant, invisible, flying table? should he believe me? if he was smart he wouldn't. What if I then said that it must be true, as the information came from a *Reliable* source, should he then believe me? I still think not
though this is what you, and the Pharaoh seem to expect me to do. accept that something which is totally unrealistic, is in fact truth, simply because he says that it came from someone who is reliable.
what I am trying to do is show the Pharaoh that he is not omniscient, and that he cannot send his cronies to make such wild accusations in foxtonsland.
i don't believe you, not only because of your reliability argument has failed to convince me, but also because of the number of holes in your entire argument. It just doesn't string together. now if you dont mind, can you please leave, and tell the Pharaoh that if he wants to accuse me of something then do it himself
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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 11, 2008 12:22:36 GMT
i peak in the name of Pharaoh it is his word the one I'm giving you his and mine, there's no holes on Pharaohs justification of this act, there is only you and your stubborness, if you go to Pharaoh and tell him there's a big giant table behinde him he may not believe you but if you give his your word as King of foxtonland and ruler of pavonis then he will so this is what I'm asking for the your word as King of foxtonland and ruler of pavonis that you dont posses such technology and you have not develop it.
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Post by Johnny Carcer-Spectro on Mar 11, 2008 13:00:01 GMT
you are bieng rediculous, a leader should not simply believe whatever is said to them, simply because someones word was given, giving your word does not make it true.
simply believing all that is said will lead a nation to ruin.
and I have to object to your belief that there are no gaps in the Pharohs logic, in his arguement. First you come in claiming that foxtonsland has created something which will invade the pharohs privecy, then you follow this insult up by saying the pharoh pays well to be informed,
yet later,when questioned about Pharohs beliefs about privecy, and how he gained the information, you claimed that he was not spying,
you also said that someone just CAME to the pharoh with information, and you were self-rightious enough to say that the person came because of their moral obligation to end the project, rather than for money?
and even then your girlfriend analogy fails, as you were not able to show how a person can be relyable without you having prior experience of them, and their services. and now you have brought this rubbish about the pharohs word into the debate, that argument fails just as badly, I'm affraid.
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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 13, 2008 14:39:56 GMT
well if you dont want to accept Pharaohs arguments youre free to do so, if you dont want to accept his word youre free to do so as well, but if we cant trust in the word of each other leaderes then that leave us in a bad place my friend since it will lead us to untrusting each other and that when the nations will fall, if you dont want to give your word is because youre hiding something and youre afraid of us knowing if you dont give your word then youre lieing which will confirm Pharaohs suspicions
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 13, 2008 16:18:35 GMT
"Look, we're in the world of Politics. Lying, mistrust, deciept and so on is apart of the job description, the laws we obey are your own, you don't need to comform to anyone else's demands or requestions." I pause for breath. "Now, you can drop your accusations and leave, or you can stay and things can get a little... Unpleasant... Verbially so."
Bare in mind the rifle is slung and arms are in a normal talking guesture.
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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 19, 2008 10:06:53 GMT
well.. Well... Well..., the ruler of jacknitka has confessed to be a lier, will the King of foxtonland will do so?, if you give me your word and its truth than you have gain even more respect from the other nations, if you give your word and its a lie then your word will mean nothing in the future neither the proof that you could present with them because they come from a lier and you will lose respect from all the nations in this world, if you dont give me your word on wheter Pharaoh's informant was right or not then you will be seated as a lier as well because you what me to believe you dont have such technology but you wont give your word, see by now Pharaohs informants are 1 minute away from all of the nations kings and queens of the nations around the world, and they will know Pharaoh send me to talk to you about this so you either have it, accept you do and we can talk about this or you can either deny it or lie and you will lose the trust of all your allies across the world and the respect of all the nations, the choise is yours King of foxtonland.
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Post by Johnny Carcer-Spectro on Mar 19, 2008 10:51:44 GMT
i look prety dammed angry. So much so that I'm finging it difficult not to "get my claws on you" "you are as ignorant as you are simple minded," I yell "not only have you ignored the fact that I am not a king, you have also mistaken Jack for the King of Jackitanika. You have twisted his words to mean what YOU want them to. You are ignorant, blinded to the fact that he may have been giving an example, or trying to persuade you that the politics is a dirty business, that there are people that will lie, he never said that WE have!" I pause again, standing from my chair. "and now you admit that you yourself have been trying to lie to US? that you do have spys? and now you choose to BLACKMAIL our nations?!"
i slam my hand on the table, in a very violent outburst. I do not say anything for several minutes. I approach sobek. "given the circumstances I am forced to consider your offer" I cannot think properly in this state of mind. Need to be alone. You will leave me, I need to be aloneJack will go to the observation deck. You will go to the reception on the first floor and wait for me to call for you. Leave freely, or I will throw you out.", I pause "once I have calmed down perhaps I will consider giving you my word, though the concept is REDUNDANT, I pause" but know this," I pause again"the pharoh does not know what he might be geting into, and black mail was not a wise move" I pause again "both of you, go"
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Post by Jack Hyter on Mar 20, 2008 12:07:38 GMT
I leave, poste-haste to the observation deck. On my way out, I tell Johnny's secatary to bring him, what Tom refers to as 'Johnny's Calming Meds' or what the secatary helpfully translates as a cup of tea in his faverate mug and a pile of bourbons.
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Post by Pharaoh tesenor rernem II on Mar 27, 2008 13:32:14 GMT
sobek turns around and head for the reception in there he sits and waits for the king's answer.
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